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us of the controversy that ensued after the president came out, after the vice president came out and really put him in a position where he either had to declare himself in favor-- because before that, he had said, "well, i really don't-- i'm not there yet. i'm not there yet" on the question-- >> ifill: evolving. >> woodruff: i'm evolving. but then after vice president joe biden said that he was absolutely in favor of gay marriage, the president a few days later came out and said he, too. >> he did him a favor. >> the fact is, the president paid no political price, and, indeed, on the contrary, may very well have been materially aided by his position. >> ifill: michael, i'm curious, is there any-- how much change happens by who we elect as our leaders and how much of it happens through these ballot initiatives, through these referenda, where the voice of the people actually speaks directly to changing laws and changing minds. >> it's its interaction of both of those things with voters. 1978 it was proposition 13 in california, which had to do with reducing state services, and an e
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